Rhetorical Lesson No.7:What’s Your Point?

If your defense boils down to this, then what are your really trying to say?
 

“When in the course of debate over firefighting strategies, tactics and firefighter safety, as well as the induction of new theories to be considered, the support for your argument collapses into pitting your number of working fires and rescues against another’s, was your argument that valid at the start?”

 

It's out there on the net. Go find it.


We encourage and support constructive dialogue and debate. View our comment policy.

You are not authorized to see this part
Please, insert a valid App IDotherwise your plugin won't work.

5 Comments

  • You guys are killing me. I know I read it a while back, but can’t remember where, and have been looking for it all morning. I’m gonna find it, though…

  • Bill Carey says:

    Three little letters…

    Bill Carey

  • I’ve been otherwise preoccupied for the past several days, but gave it another go this afternoon (and even cheated by consulting the good folks at Google). Unfortunately, this one still eludes me, much like 23-Down in today’s crossword.

    I’m pretty confident I know the topic it was used in discussing, but I can’t pin down the author. If I had to put money on it, I would go with my gut that it was an offering from Mr. Bailey. I thought I had read it (or something similar) in one of his posts regarding experience and/or expertise, but couldn’t find that particular quote.

    …maybe one more hint?

  • Bill Carey says:

    A debate on VSP had a ‘low-road’ comment by one of it’s most well known advocates. Joe Brown, a local firefighter and friend had written about VSP and similar subjects here, http://justlookingbusy.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/equations-or-effectiveness-have-we-become-so-smart-we%E2%80%99re-stupid-2/. After some time, he received the following comment from Steve Marsar,

    I am more than willing to defend both my firefighting experience and resume to you and I will do so over a couple of emails but first, I have five questions for you:

    1. How many years do YOU have in the fire service?
    2. How many Occupied Structural Fires have YOU been to in the last year (that is, fires that required the stretching and use of at least two handlines)?
    3. How many Line-Of-Duty funerals have YOU been to?
    4. How many firefighters that YOU worked with in your company or department have been killed in the Line-Of-Duty?
    5. Have YOU ever been the family liaison for a family who lost a father, mother, husband, wife, son, daughter, brother, or sister to a Line-Of-Duty Death?

    Once I know more about your “experience” beating up the red devil in your living room and pulling little babies from deaths grasp in defense of your neighbors life and property, I will attempt to use both my firefighting experience and resume to help provide education on concepts that WILL save firefighters lives and teach them how to fight fires from yes, the interior.

    Dave LeBlanc and I both commented that this was a cheap shot and wondered if it helps support the science behind the EFO research when one falls back to adolescent retorts.
    http://backstepfirefighter.com/2011/08/10/a-loss-of-decorrum/

    I was actually surprised it came to this.

    Bill Carey

  • Ahh…OK. I remember seeing Joe Brown’s post a while back, before the above comment/questions was/were added to the mix.

    I think it’s a little surprising as well, since most of the other interactions regarding this topic have been civil and constructive, overall. Most surprising to me, however, is that VSP seemed to be but one small footnote of Joe’s post, which focused on getting back to where we should be…prepared for duty, and holding ourselves accountable.

    Thanks for clearing up my otherwise cloudy head, and keep the good reads coming.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

background image Blogger Img

Backstep Firefighter

“To provide a point of critical thought about certain acts and events in the fire service while incorporating behavioral education and commentary in a referenced format.”

FE Talk: Humpday Hangout

Recent Posts
billcphoto Mindset March 29, 2015
Holding1And1Photo Into The Breech March 29, 2015
s13larger If Not Us, Then Who? March 17, 2015
Comments
Ron Ayotte
Mindset
Dave... you hit it to of he ballpark again! Every firefighter, fire service instructor and every fire chief should read this...i n some cases, it should be read daily as a reminder of what the core mission of our profession is.
2015-03-29 12:20:59
Bill Schnaekel
If Not Us, Then Who?
Chief Ayotte, Thank you, not only for your kind words but your informative response. You had stated that it was a judgement call as to whether or not the initial arriving company officer conducted a quick primary search on marked vacant buildings. I'm curious, would that same officer face disciplinary actions if that were the…
2015-03-23 18:19:02
Steve Yelich
Some Saw Bullshit, Volume IIShared Post from CMD-FD
Gabe- This was a personal pet peeve of mine when I was on the Truck. All you have to do is read the instructions for Warthog blade care and a little pride in your equipment. I always took a trash bag and laid it flat; sprayed WD-40 all over it. Laid the blade on it…
2015-03-19 22:52:36
Ron Ayotte
If Not Us, Then Who?
Bill... your article is definitely something that should be brought up in every firehouse, whether it be in a formal class setting or an informal firehouse kitchen table discussion. I was my Department's liaison to and a member of the City's Code Enforcement Impact Team. Part of what we did was marking abandoned properties with…
2015-03-18 06:28:13
mike clark
Our Riding List
Ric Jorge: Brother, if you could grow a mustache like mine we would look like twins. I had the opportunity to teach with Eric "Tatter"Hankins, E.J. Mascaro, Bobby Haas and Rusty Ricker. Your name came up and the success that you have realized with the SIT program and enlightenment it has provided to America's Firefighters.…
2015-03-18 01:03:20
AFTDIMage
BostonFireGearImage
Plugin from the creators ofBrindes Personalizados :: More at PlulzWordpress Plugins