Rhetorical Lesson No.7:What’s Your Point?

If your defense boils down to this, then what are your really trying to say?
 

“When in the course of debate over firefighting strategies, tactics and firefighter safety, as well as the induction of new theories to be considered, the support for your argument collapses into pitting your number of working fires and rescues against another’s, was your argument that valid at the start?”

 

It's out there on the net. Go find it.


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5 Comments

  • You guys are killing me. I know I read it a while back, but can’t remember where, and have been looking for it all morning. I’m gonna find it, though…

  • Bill Carey says:

    Three little letters…

    Bill Carey

  • I’ve been otherwise preoccupied for the past several days, but gave it another go this afternoon (and even cheated by consulting the good folks at Google). Unfortunately, this one still eludes me, much like 23-Down in today’s crossword.

    I’m pretty confident I know the topic it was used in discussing, but I can’t pin down the author. If I had to put money on it, I would go with my gut that it was an offering from Mr. Bailey. I thought I had read it (or something similar) in one of his posts regarding experience and/or expertise, but couldn’t find that particular quote.

    …maybe one more hint?

  • Bill Carey says:

    A debate on VSP had a ‘low-road’ comment by one of it’s most well known advocates. Joe Brown, a local firefighter and friend had written about VSP and similar subjects here, http://justlookingbusy.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/equations-or-effectiveness-have-we-become-so-smart-we%E2%80%99re-stupid-2/. After some time, he received the following comment from Steve Marsar,

    I am more than willing to defend both my firefighting experience and resume to you and I will do so over a couple of emails but first, I have five questions for you:

    1. How many years do YOU have in the fire service?
    2. How many Occupied Structural Fires have YOU been to in the last year (that is, fires that required the stretching and use of at least two handlines)?
    3. How many Line-Of-Duty funerals have YOU been to?
    4. How many firefighters that YOU worked with in your company or department have been killed in the Line-Of-Duty?
    5. Have YOU ever been the family liaison for a family who lost a father, mother, husband, wife, son, daughter, brother, or sister to a Line-Of-Duty Death?

    Once I know more about your “experience” beating up the red devil in your living room and pulling little babies from deaths grasp in defense of your neighbors life and property, I will attempt to use both my firefighting experience and resume to help provide education on concepts that WILL save firefighters lives and teach them how to fight fires from yes, the interior.

    Dave LeBlanc and I both commented that this was a cheap shot and wondered if it helps support the science behind the EFO research when one falls back to adolescent retorts.
    http://backstepfirefighter.com/2011/08/10/a-loss-of-decorrum/

    I was actually surprised it came to this.

    Bill Carey

  • Ahh…OK. I remember seeing Joe Brown’s post a while back, before the above comment/questions was/were added to the mix.

    I think it’s a little surprising as well, since most of the other interactions regarding this topic have been civil and constructive, overall. Most surprising to me, however, is that VSP seemed to be but one small footnote of Joe’s post, which focused on getting back to where we should be…prepared for duty, and holding ourselves accountable.

    Thanks for clearing up my otherwise cloudy head, and keep the good reads coming.

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Backstep Firefighter

“To provide a point of critical thought about certain acts and events in the fire service while incorporating behavioral education and commentary in a referenced format.”

FE Talk: Humpday Hangout

Comments
Ron Ayotte
“FEAR” by Ric Jorge
Ric, excellent article. Your FD is not the only one that suffers from TAS (Training Anxiety Syndrome). Same circus, different community. As far as seeking help from an EAP, I did take advantage of my community's EAP 8 years into my career. I was heading down the road to a separation/divorce after I got promoted…
2014-12-04 16:04:47
Mike McAdams
Who Looks After The Victims?
Captain LeBlanc, Great point in the blog debating the new and old techniques and how to blend them into that first minutes on the fire ground. One of the first points stated was “Unless they know your manpower, resources and abilities, and are standing in that front lawn at 2:00 a.m., all they can do…
2014-12-02 14:45:23
Ruel Douvillier
Who Looks After The Victims?
I suspect these new tactics are all related to the NFPA standard that came out a few years ago recommending higher manpower on apparatus than the authorities having jurisdiction were prepared to implement. For the 30+ years that I've been fighting fires, UL and NIST have been using the data that they gained by setting…
2014-12-02 11:48:44
Joseph carroll
Who Looks After The Victims?
I work in a dept with 2 man Engine cos, man powers is an issue with our first due assignment. (3 engs,2 Trks , Batt Chief). Usually 13 Firefighters on the assignment. At times the exterior attack has no option, heavy fire too include exposures etc. some new leaders feel that this exterior attack is…
2014-12-01 19:05:51
Brian
Who Looks After The Victims?
Am I missing the old SSLEEVES-OCD pneumonic??? seems that one. It addressed alot of the things we have to think of, and the new Slicers is something that I think in right circumstances and construction would make sense, but at other times might be completely useless. I have watched and read alot of the NIST…
2014-12-01 02:10:06
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